LOLd hard, because when you die every module drops...

This just shows your grasp on the game tbh, bounties are immediate payouts, blue loot is market related. NERF CONCORD LP AS WELL AS INCURSION PAYOUTS

You made some very good points I concede but there are a few counter points:
-OK in a C4+ you would be making more Wealth my understanding is the c1-c3 are lo ends & the C5+ are hi end?

-160 million is near perfect legion blitz fleet w/o bio breaks except during warps ( possible for a lil more but not much )

I am curious: you said your WH losses were due to other players & your mistakes so a portion of that I take it were to NPC's and other portion was due to the nature of no Concord. Remeber in lo & NULL concord is not present so there is more ISK ( maybe alot less risk though in NULL if you are deep in SOV )

My real point in this thread is that there is aproblem with the ISK faucets all around and J space is not getting all the nerfs that the rest of Eve will be shouldering. FACE IT CCP THE REAL LOSERS HERE IS THE DRONE LEGIONS WITH THE CRAPPY TRUE SEC UNBALANCING !!! More I hear about it the worse the bounties are for peeps living there and the only way to make it better is to further unbalance inflation for the rest of Eve. Sounds like Drone region needs a few Tech Moons to spawn

I could actually agree on nerfing the income from sleepers with 10% if we got instant bounty payout rather than blue items that you need to haul to empire and sell.

Alternatively, remove all bounties from the game and replace with their own version of blue loot that every carebear has to move into high/low/npc null and sell.

We shall see how happy every incursion or mission runner will be when his ship full of bounty loot gets suicide ganked and he realize everything he worked for during a week is lost in a glorious fire.

actually you are wrong here. the main income in higher class wormhole space is blue loot. where in low class wormholes most income hopefully comes from the salvaged nanoribbons, and you basically get lucky or unlucky on paychecks, the amount of elite sleeper battleships that you get from quad escalating every anomaly and radar/mag will yield so much blue loot that it outshines nanoribbons by far (though those are always tasty)

as for the ladars. yes, they can actually make you some nice money, and probebly come near regular sleeper ops in terms of income. the reason why in reality they mostly dont is
1. they are harder to find then anomalies.
2. they take a lot longer to do.
3. the sleeper spawn mechanics are annoying. warp to it, go afk half an hour, clean sleepers and then you can do it.
4. the vital and core ladars, where the good stuff is are fairly rare. even if you chain collapse your static it can take several tries to find a single one. and while you can easily have 2 fleets of farming t3's in a c5 running the sites at the same time, the limited amount of ladars make this anything but viable for the bigger alliances

At this point I have to object to the subject line in this post for insulting our dear friends to the north, the Scottish people. The inference here is that Scots go free. Sure, some Scots go free, but there's no evidence saying any more Scots go free than any other group of people, such as the Irish, or the Italians for that matter! Next thing you know someone will equate the Scots with penny-pinching. It's shameful, I tell yah.

Brought to you as a public service by People Against Making Scots Look Cheap. All rights reserved.

with ships getting blown up everywhere there is isk constantly disappearing from the game (...) This is because incursion money stays in the economy, incursion ships rarely get blown up and even when those faction ships pop the mineral loss isn't much different than any tech-1 battleship.

CCP Soundwave ommitted that NPC buy orders would get a 10% nerf too but maybe that is because he already considers them a de facto bounty?

What I'm curious is if drone regions will get an effective third nerf where they'll get yet another 10% nerf on thier Drone bounties

And peeps in W-Space effectively are ignored by the ESCALATION/INFERNO nerf bat which is wack-a-moleing EVERYONE ELSE

Exactly they have not said anything. Every other space has had an announcement of changes & it seems they're being adversly affected and being ignored by CCP is what all should strive for if they like playing the game in thier respective niches. Sounds like to me since the peeps living in W-space are not complaining about anything maybe that means they should get a shake up in the ant farm

CCP has been violating the don't break what works rule for soooo long I'm surprised you brought that line up. Sorry but ALL ISK faucets combined are a big problem CCP Soundwave has admitted it to & saying WH's ISK faucet which is concentrated in the hands of much fewer then Incursions ( while being nearly the same exact amount ) shouldn't be touched along with the rest of the Sandbox makes me laugh I iterate CCP where's the Wormhole NERFS to Escaltation WHY ARE THEY GETTING OFF SCOT FREE?? BURN EVERYONE EQUALLY WHERE IT COMES TO THE ISK FAUCET 10% NERFS

And even with all these precautions, you will still get ganked at some point. Just the nature of the beast. We caught 3 tengus who did this same exact thing. Incoming wh's were bubbled and had mass put through them. It didn't save them.

The point being is that incursions dont have any of these risks. You shouldn't be making as much as wormhole space.

Lastly, Earl Gray tea is the best

Nope actually my point is every single ISK fountain EXCEPT wormholes has had the announcement of a nerf . Since WH's are a part of the sandbox they should too participate in the 10% cut to counter inflation along with Incursions and bounties. They spout just as much ISK into Eve & are far less numbers then bounties ( and 1/2 the number of Incursion runners )

Listen to Dr E you obviously haven't... he states in the writing of a graph the percentage of Eve doing incursion he also states the number of peeps living in WH's ( ergo the the number of people doing sites is less unless 100% of them are).

If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space.

Well played. You may now proceed with the Picard maneuver

lol I took 1 day off o Forums & Simi tries her hand in math & statistics [:roll: Bravo your 1 attempt at math was waaaaaaaaaay off. I'll let you stare at the numbers & come up with why ( hint stare at QEN's 2010 :)
I did a little stat mining from some tweet & found some interesting numbers on wormhole jumps you should check it out...
https://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Diagora
but more to my point about the ISK faucet of WH's here's a few CCP stats from CCP_Diagoras
"Sell-to-NPCs items from wormholes generated 346bn ISK yesterday. 10.43tn ISK in Feb 2012 total. 5:01 AM - 8 Mar 12 via web"

-+ Embed this Tweet
"Sunday 19th Feb; 886bn spent on minerals, 619bn on battleships, 374bn sleeper components, 359bn composite materials, 339bn ice products. and a comparison versus Incursions faucet "Average payout for Incursion participants on the 1st of Feb was 169.5m ISK. 301.8bn payout total, 1,781 participants"

To be fair though I'll give you Feb 1st was a wednesday & both Feb 19th & March 11th were days on the weekend

I'm trying to extract actual sites being run from the NPC kills stats reported from CCP_Diagoras in his tweets but thats difficult... the numbers of Incursion runners is a easier stat from the way Incursion payout mechanism is set up If CCP_Diagoras threw out a stat of the numbers of ribbons were salvaged on a given day & were used or sold over a month that stat would be golden

Wormholes are fine as they are.

If anything they should be more lucrative, especially c5 and c6.

The risk involved is immense and at the end of the day, incursions are still better.

Yeah they're the most dangerous.

However when thinking about these kind of things you have to think like this: "how can something be exploited?".

If c1 and c2 were more lucrative people could simply chain farm them with a t3 and then collapse the hole and farm them again.

I'm advocating increasing c5-c6 simply because they're extremely hard and they should pay something absurd

(oh and btw between whs and incursions i'll always prefer incursions)

Because WH's and their rewards are balanced, unlike hi-sec incursions.

Reading your posts is like watching a two year old throw a tantrum.

??? ISK is ISK
I wonder what amounts of ISK is brought in the lo&NULL sex Incursions too I haven't seen that stat yet either

Absolutely confirmed as a troll.

He didnt even dare to quote the second part of my post.

Incursions will be NERFed on the 24th we'll see how much Inflation is decreased the next month

Must be nice to be let alone from CCP in Wormhole space ... I guess I should make it my mission to go where ever CCP is ignoring to carve out my own happy niche in Eve.

He doesn't even read what other people post, just rants on inane.

Should be banned.

You didn't prove jack shite

Listen to Dr E you obviously haven't... he states in the writing of a graph the percentage of Eve doing incursion he also states the number of peeps living in WH's ( ergo the the number of people doing sites is less unless 100% of them are).

If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space.

You talking to me about statisics?!?!? lol You've never ever shown one xcept crude outta your arse

Listen to Dr E you obviously haven't... he states in the writing of a graph the percentage of Eve doing incursion he also states the number of peeps living in WH's ( ergo the the number of people doing sites is less unless 100% of them are).

If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space.

Incorrect Inflation started getting worse BEFORE Incursions came out

I'd start reposting of your statistics but there are not any

Listen to Dr E you obviously haven't... he states in the writing of a graph the percentage of Eve doing incursion he also states the number of peeps living in WH's ( ergo the the number of people doing sites is less unless 100% of them are).

If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space.

Wormholes pale in comparison to null sec sov holding in terms of costs incurred.

And we're forced to sell our harvested resources on the market just like everyone else. No NPC buy orders outside the overseers artifacts which are rare.

Go read Q4 QEN 2010 in order to figure out how the numbers of residents in Wormholes is calculated. Dr E's chart in fanfest 2012 said 5% of Eve's characters were running Incursions too.

No it wasn't you lie. Your statistics are way off & further show how of the mark your assumptions are.

And once again I reiterate:

http://d35dgn2pdc8wsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/04.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZD6-vGQms

http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-econmony-stupid.html

http://d35dgn2pdc8wsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/06.jpg

If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space.

Simi do a little research & you could argue your point sooo much better with real math!!! So How many characters live in WH Space according to Dr E? & how much was your math off by? ( on a side not why does Dr E's graph in fanfest 2012 say 5% of Eve's population has been doing Incursions? )

Really????

The only "risk" in a wormhole is you forget to hit that scan button every 5-10 seconds and look for combat probes.

Hahahaha.. okay confirming that I need combats to catch you.

Don't worry about the HICs we have on the wormholes or that dictor we warped to your POS, alligned to where you are and cloaked.

You're not safe. Not ever.

Even if you do manage to make it to your POS, if you acted this way when I connected to your system, i'd just remove your f*cking POS, not many WH entities take too kindly to pansy-ass farmers who don't fight.

So how has that improved the bottoming out of T3 prices while all other ships have increased in price since Escalation?

Wait are you saying that the increase in ship prices is somehow related to the incursion nerf and not the removal of drone alloys and massive overhaul of loot tables

HAHA - You're comparing HiSec to W-Space?!?

the problem is that I dont need to spend 700million a month to keep a large POS in HiSec to protect my earnings while exposing myself to an environment deadlier than nullsec and WITHOUT local to help notify me of bad company.

Go spend a month there, then we can consider your proposal.

Wormholes are practically twice as hard, you have to deal with rats that switch targets, Drain cap, warp scram and you have to scan down sites to even warp to them. There is no local, no one is daft enough to speak in local. It is a element of surprise but extremely sucks if three bombs uncloak and bomb your men. D-Scan? no feasible on cloakers.

So I can safely say that Wormhole is pretty hard and twice the risk but the rewards are plentiful.

nothing makes me happier than to see a 15+ page troll thread :D
common guys, this was all bull troll's billy goat gruff from page one!

You sound mad highsec pubby...

You mean you can't harvest rediculous isk anymore, without any risk whatsoever?!?

I feel so bad for you.... Not... stop shitting up the WH forums and go cry elsewhere...

Im so glad incursions are **** now. With all of these high SP characters looking for a new home... they might come back to wormholes. And since they are too used to their safety in high sec, it means I will personally be getting tons of extra kills. TONS.

This scrub wants to nerf blue loot yet makes no mention of the thousands, yes thousands, of people killed in high value ships per WEEK in W-space. He obviously has no idea how terrible he is, and how dangerous we are. Thank you to the mod that moved this thread in here. You seriously gave us all something to laugh at eternally.

No local
No hotdrops
No easy jump freighter logistics
No easy gate camps
No station docking games
Actual effort required to get back in once you've been podded

Lets leave the holes to the pros, eh?

I canGÇÖt see why the fuss about GÇÿblue lootGÇÖ. They are simply the sleeper analogue of the other ratsGÇÖ bounties. Rather than CONCORD, or whoever, paying you a bounty when you kill a pirat you get the grab those blue things from the wrecks and later various NPCs in empire space will buy them from you for a fixed amount. Just like other rats you also get to salvage the wrecks and, unlike most other rats, you can get some pretty nice salvage items GǪ subject to the incessant GÇÿCCP nerfed melted dropsGÇÖ moans.

Making your isk from Sleeper-PvE is a whole different game to hisec missions or incursions, or even lowsec / nullsec plexes. Not only are you GÇÿrattingGÇÖ in a very hostile environment (no-sec and no-local) but you do not realise a single milli-isk in income until you also haul your takings to empire space and to a system where you can sell it on the market. My biggest single loss in eve was around 5 billion GǪ hauling a few weeks of sleeper takings thru hisec to market. IGÇÖd got it safely out of w-space, thru an adjoining C2, but stupidly ran the 4-jump hisec route in my hauler rather than 20+ jumping a fenrir / orca / prowler over to pick it up. It was an expensive lesson, and a major delay for the get-subs-a-jump-freighter program.

Obviously the nerf-everything brigade are gonna want to nerf w-space too GǪ but IMO being a bear in w-space is a whole different thing to PvE anywhere else in eve. You can certainly earn a lot of isk, but not without surmounting some pretty major risks GǪ even during the hisec phases of converting your PvE to isk.

Nah, I've gone "bitter vet" because the blobs are five times as big as when I last played and because everyone flies around with as much bling as I always did, or more even. Which means I can't do my thing alone anymore and will have to become a ***** like you, bound to his flock, if I want to attack peeps in high class wh's.

Well if darth doesnt quit i am sure i can find a nice c6 for him and his incurions mates to move in and farm in to get the easy isk he is after.

The problem is not feeding the troll though, there are many threads that have whined about WH's recently but none of them have been moved to the WH subsection and without an ISD or CCP employee game enough to put their name on moving it here. So you can be assured someone that wanted to get responses about the topic and moved it here for a reason so it is no longer about explaining WH mechanics to the OP.

See i tend to dissagree, i do think we should be responding if there is a possibility someone of relevence may read it.


For instance i feel some WH classes should be buffed rather than nerfed, for instance C2's and C4's do not represent a good level of ISK/hour compared to other lower class respective WH's.

Yeah, I would 't mind C4's sites spawning a little faster than they currently do. But then they only have one static to worry about, so I don't know if that's intended for the balance.

It's funny isn't it Simi - all the posts going against Darth's proposal. Nearly all of the responses actually explain why, too, and not just telling him to STFU. I still can't work out if he's just (very successfully) trolling or is really that upset that his Incursions have gone.

But have you read the latest 1.1 update, Darth? They're reversing the 10% blunting cut. You have you ISK back. Surely you must be over the moon!! Are you happy now? You can't complain any more, surely?